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Post by Mavericks on Aug 13, 2008 21:42:38 GMT -5
Any of you guys really politically savvy?
I just want to see what your guys views are in general about the upcoming election.
I'm for McCain even though I live in NJ, which is so blue that its black.
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Post by Indiana on Aug 13, 2008 22:13:14 GMT -5
I follow it sporadically, but I hate it. Obama was cool when he was a true liberal, but his speeches, while great, are all the same and he never goes into detail anymore. He's just okay, now. The political system got to him, which means that just like every other president, he isn't going to do shit when he gets in the White House.
Yes, Obama's getting in. McCain has no chance. He was the absolute worst candidate possible for the Republicans, and my second-most hated to Mike Huckabee. He's simply rather dumb and senile.
I've been all for Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich. Ron Paul is cool, too. I don't really agree with him on everything, but he seems like a more conservative version of Thomas Jefferson.
I really have no faith in politics, though. The effort is worthless. It's not as secret as pre-WWII, but a ton of coverups are always happening, and a bunch of rich people still have a lot of power. I'm never going to bother voting. Fuck the system.
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Post by Mavericks on Aug 13, 2008 22:47:05 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. I wouldn't say McCain was the worst candidate I mean in a sense he was probably the most center candidate other than Rudy Giuliani who wouldn't have gotten any conservative votes. Politics is unfortunately a dirty business this day and age but its not as corrupt as you make it to be. You seem to have been watching too much Loose Change and Zeitgeist.
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Post by Indiana on Aug 14, 2008 6:04:21 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. I wouldn't say McCain was the worst candidate I mean in a sense he was probably the most center candidate other than Rudy Giuliani who wouldn't have gotten any conservative votes. Nah, McCain was the most conservative candidate, more so than even Huckabee and Romney. Rudy would've been a great choice had he not been so dumb early on. I've seen them both, but you can look at Bush's stances completely changing from his promises in 2000, Iraq, the Iran-Contra Affair, Watergate, Vietnam, the Kennedys, Korea, FDR's attempt to pack the Supreme Court, and the old boss system as indicators that some shady shit goes on that the government doesn't want us knowing about. Ever since Ike's campaign really opening TV to politics, we've found out about some bad shit, but just think about how easily everything was to be covered before all the press laws and before TV/radio.
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Post by SuperSonics on Aug 14, 2008 7:01:09 GMT -5
I'm in line with Cyruxes views in that I really like Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich, but I've always hated Obama. He hardly ever went into detail in the first place, and just makes general statements that he can easily go back on later.He's almost a concervative, and certainly what we don't need in the White House. Honestly, I'd have McCain over Obama, because he actually means what he says.
But far and away my favourite candidate right now is Ralph Nader. Here's hoping he gets into the debates.
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Post by kaufy3313 on Aug 14, 2008 11:44:50 GMT -5
I'm pretty skeptical of our system too, Pacers. I recall sitting in government class senior year and thinking, "I can be a complete moron and still run for office if I have enough money." Money is the only thing that matters in politics.
With regards to this election, Obama's going to win hands down. It doesn't really matter what each candidate says or does. The fact is that the American voting public (generally not very bright) knows that the economy is in the shits right now. And because Republicans were in office, they're going to get blamed. Thus, I imagine that Obama will win pretty easily in November.
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Post by Indiana on Aug 14, 2008 14:35:26 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd have McCain over Obama, because he actually means what he says. Not really. Look for some John McCain videos on youtube and you'll see that his "Straight Talk" is bullshit. He'll say something, then later claim he never said it, or do something, then claim he never did. When he actually does mean what he says, he's usually mistaken. You know, President Putin of Germany, Sunnis and Shiites, Iran, Iraq, and of course, giving bottled hot water to dehydrated babies. Orlando, you're spot-on about the election. Plus, McCain has even worse knowledge about the economy than the rest of his party. It's strange. I haven't found one thing he's good at. Even military strategy, not really. He's rather incompetent at that, too, if his plan of action is going to be obliterating the middle east. He's dumb, old, senile, impersonable, has a terrible temper, and is closer to Dick Cheney than anyone would like. I have no idea how he made it this far.
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Post by Denver on Aug 14, 2008 15:21:31 GMT -5
I'm taking off for this election. All I'll say is that America won't put McCain in office, he's like a pseudo-literate version Bush with a temper.
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Post by Mavericks on Aug 14, 2008 17:39:20 GMT -5
Well first off, McCain isn't the most conservative candidate since Huckabee beats him at that. Secondly Rudy would have been a terrible choice because the only experience he had was being the Mayor during 9/11 which frankly he gets way too much credit for than he deserves. As for Sonics that's completely out of line when you say that another Conservative is the "last thing we need in the white house." I mean think about it this way, I don't see what justice a liberal does for the United States when they plan to tax our businesses and make them harder to run in a time where our economy is in desperate need of help. Liberals try too hard to completely change the econonmy when only slight adjustments are needed to fix the struggles we are going through at the moment. Probably a few months ago you could have easily said that Obama will win hands down, but its getting pretty close at the moment. Most recent polls put them dead even. Not to mention you do not know to what effect Jerome Corsi's book or Jeremiah Wright's book may have on Obama's campaign. Personally I think that's the wrong way to win an election but you can't say that McCain's out of it just yet. As for Obama if he's more than just "talk" he needs to stop flip-flopping on policies.
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Post by Americans on Aug 14, 2008 17:43:01 GMT -5
Whenever there is a vote here in Canada, I always vote for the Conservative party. So I guess if I was to vote right now as an American, I'd vote McCain.
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Post by Indiana on Aug 14, 2008 19:49:56 GMT -5
Well first off, McCain isn't the most conservative candidate since Huckabee beats him at that. Not really. Huckabee has some surprisingly liberal traits despite his mega-religious stance. Eh, experience isn't that big in the eyes of the public. Obama's still young and hasn't done much, and he's been fine. The last time the economy was in major need of help, who saved the day? The most liberal president, ever. We can go back and forth about how each side helps the economy more, but it's a rather stale argument that's been tossed around too much. If the conservatives had someone smart with the economy like Ronald Reagan, maybe that'd be fine, but the point is that every candidate this year was dumb besides Ron Paul, and McCain led the pack in that area. I don't know how you expect John McCain to help our economy when he barely even knows the basics. Heh, I guess you're completely forgetting the Libertarians and general capitalist liberals. Blah, fuck polls. This is at least going to be as big a blowout as Bush-Kerry. Does anyone actually care about Jeremiah Wright? He's overhyped and his effect is overrated. Every candidate does that. Obama's trying to move towards the center, and so is McCain. Truth is that if either are elected, they'll push their slight extremist policies no matter what they said to the public.
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Post by Mavericks on Aug 14, 2008 20:58:36 GMT -5
First of all you can't credit the "most liberal president ever" for saving the economy, and if you're talking about Clinton that was the result of the Reagan and Bush economic policies from a decade before that. Those that doubt trickle-down economics are ignorant since it has worked in the past.
As for "pushing their extremist policies" you cannot say that because quite frankly they have the intention of being reelected, so if they were "extremist" obviously their reelection chances would be pretty slim.
And as for Jeremiah Wright obviously people are bound to listen to him since he was a pastor of Obama's for 20 years people will take him as a credible source. Now whether its right or not is up for debate, but people will still want to know what he has to say regardless.
Also "as big as a blowout as bush-kerry?" Lol, the last election was reletively close to the point where it came down to one state in Ohio. So I don't see what kind've point you're trying to make there.
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Post by Indiana on Aug 14, 2008 21:21:33 GMT -5
First of all you can't credit the "most liberal president ever" for saving the economy, and if you're talking about Clinton that was the result of the Reagan and Bush economic policies from a decade before that. FDR. Look at how Bush did it. It's a great example. Slowly build in your first term, call someone a flip-flopper, win a second term, and then bam, full force. He's no longer a credible source. His statements are all made to slander Obama, so he has the credibility of a toad. Bush-Kerry really wasn't close at all. Bush won by over 3 million votes and 35 electoral college votes. Ohio didn't matter. I actually thought he won a greater amount of popular votes, though. Oh well. I knew it was over early that year, so I guess I didn't really pay attention to the rest.
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Post by SuperSonics on Aug 16, 2008 9:45:55 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd have McCain over Obama, because he actually means what he says. Not really. Look for some John McCain videos on youtube and you'll see that his "Straight Talk" is bullshit. He'll say something, then later claim he never said it, or do something, then claim he never did. When he actually does mean what he says, he's usually mistaken. You know, President Putin of Germany, Sunnis and Shiites, Iran, Iraq, and of course, giving bottled hot water to dehydrated babies. Orlando, you're spot-on about the election. Plus, McCain has even worse knowledge about the economy than the rest of his party. It's strange. I haven't found one thing he's good at. Even military strategy, not really. He's rather incompetent at that, too, if his plan of action is going to be obliterating the middle east. He's dumb, old, senile, impersonable, has a terrible temper, and is closer to Dick Cheney than anyone would like. I have no idea how he made it this far. Eh, I don't really pay attention to either of them, and could pick millions of people I'd rather have than McCain or Obama. I hate them both, and hat ho they're completely controlled by whomever will give them the most money. Nader/Gonzalez is the ticket for me.
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Post by Braves on Aug 17, 2008 14:51:57 GMT -5
anyone who votes independent is wasting their vote. and who ever said McCain is "impersonable"(which dictionary.com says isnt a word)..... i dont know, i was just watching a session of him getting questioned and he made a decent amount of jokes and told stories and stuff. i dont know how else you could base it on other than how he acts in the public eye and during discussions.
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Post by Mavericks on Aug 17, 2008 18:32:19 GMT -5
I think McCain has handled himself in the public, but his campaign staff has really messed up his ads
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Post by Denver on Aug 19, 2008 16:13:47 GMT -5
anyone who votes independent is wasting their vote. and who ever said McCain is "impersonable"(which dictionary.com says isnt a word)..... i dont know, i was just watching a session of him getting questioned and he made a decent amount of jokes and told stories and stuff. i dont know how else you could base it on other than how he acts in the public eye and during discussions. Lots of us remember McCain's outbursts though, and I definitely don't need that crap from my president. I'm sure about 125mil Americans would agree with me.
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Post by SuperSonics on Aug 20, 2008 3:18:32 GMT -5
anyone who votes independent is wasting their vote. and who ever said McCain is "impersonable"(which dictionary.com says isnt a word)..... i dont know, i was just watching a session of him getting questioned and he made a decent amount of jokes and told stories and stuff. i dont know how else you could base it on other than how he acts in the public eye and during discussions. Wherever you vote, it's wasted anyway. How many times has an election beyond the city scale been decided by one vote? Exactly. Don't give me shit about how having only two options is a good thing for the United States.
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Post by dubbsbones on Aug 28, 2008 8:45:38 GMT -5
Well first off, McCain isn't the most conservative candidate since Huckabee beats him at that. Secondly Rudy would have been a terrible choice because the only experience he had was being the Mayor during 9/11 which frankly he gets way too much credit for than he deserves. As for Sonics that's completely out of line when you say that another Conservative is the "last thing we need in the white house." I mean think about it this way, I don't see what justice a liberal does for the United States when they plan to tax our businesses and make them harder to run in a time where our economy is in desperate need of help. Liberals try too hard to completely change the econonmy when only slight adjustments are needed to fix the struggles we are going through at the moment. Probably a few months ago you could have easily said that Obama will win hands down, but its getting pretty close at the moment. Most recent polls put them dead even. Not to mention you do not know to what effect Jerome Corsi's book or Jeremiah Wright's book may have on Obama's campaign. Personally I think that's the wrong way to win an election but you can't say that McCain's out of it just yet. As for Obama if he's more than just "talk" he needs to stop flip-flopping on policies. Siv- you are straight up crazy. Our economy is in the toilet b/c Bush (a republican fyi) is spending money on Iraq (unnecessary war) instead of Afghanistan (a necessary war against terrorism). Also- i would like to point out that we are staying in Iraq indefinitely even though the Iraqi government has an 80 billion dollar surplus. Our Foreign Policy is a total and complete mess- we need to talk with Iran (something that Bush has refused to do) and we need to protect Israel (go Jews!) We may be taxing businesses but we are giving tax breaks to the middle class instead of giving more money to the people that don't need any more money. Trickle-down economics is as believable as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and a rich Mexican. Oh and your definitely right. Trickle Down economics does work. Just Kidding. Its stupid. Both Reagan and Bush- both presidents using this preposterous economic theory- left their office with America in high inflation and high unemployment rates. McCain has flip-flopped from the senate and I think that Obama is the best choice.
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Post by kaufy3313 on Oct 16, 2008 22:21:59 GMT -5
Anybody want to revisit this after the debate last night?
I said, and I think it was Indiana that was behind me, that it wouldn't be close (relatively speaking) because McCain was too closely related to Bush. Now were only 18 days away and it looks like I'm right (assuming all continues the way it's headed).
Any other thoughts?
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Post by oldSuns on Oct 16, 2008 22:59:44 GMT -5
Great debate ...... I'm going to go ahead and vote for Bob Barr.
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Post by Indiana on Oct 17, 2008 7:11:31 GMT -5
Anybody want to revisit this after the debate last night? I said, and I think it was Indiana that was behind me, that it wouldn't be close (relatively speaking) because McCain was too closely related to Bush. Now were only 18 days away and it looks like I'm right (assuming all continues the way it's headed). Any other thoughts? Basically. It was only close for about two months, then McCain was falling and made the "bold" move of choosing Sarah Palin. Since then he's been falling even more dramatically, and keeps making drastic changes which make people dislike him even more. Did anyone see the end of the debate? He stuck out his tongue and pranced around like a 4-year-old to try to appear "young." No. Bob Barr is horrendous. He's the worst Libertarian candidate, ever. Vote Nader.
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Post by oldSuns on Oct 17, 2008 11:10:16 GMT -5
No. Bob Barr is horrendous. He's the worst Libertarian candidate, ever. Vote Nader. Do share more than just a statement of displeasure on Barr. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Time to refresh myself on Nader and give a closer look but personally I've enjoyed listening to Barr via youtube or whatever means I can find. The Libertarian ideals just make sense to me.
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Post by motown on Oct 17, 2008 13:01:00 GMT -5
I wonder why the American economy is down...I wonder...hmmm...
*flush* crap swirls around in toilet before disappearing * flush*
“The fundamentals of our economy are strong.” - John McCain
---
Ron Paul > Barak Obama > John McCain
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Post by Indiana on Oct 17, 2008 18:45:49 GMT -5
personally I've enjoyed listening to Barr via youtube or whatever means I can find. The Libertarian ideals just make sense to me. I've never heard him speak, but I hate most of his ideas that I've read about. He's so conservative he's hardly a Libertarian. It's been a few months since I read about him, probably when he was given the nomination, so I'll check him out again and let you know specifics.
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Post by lordbacon7 on Oct 19, 2008 2:25:05 GMT -5
Palin is hot so I'm rootin for her and McCain in this one.
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Post by Denver on Oct 19, 2008 12:54:20 GMT -5
Palin is hot so I'm rootin for her and McCain in this one. Sweet, so you prove your political idiocy. Just like McCain did by picking her.
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Post by Indiana on Oct 19, 2008 16:38:47 GMT -5
I checked out Bob Barr's wikipedia page. The guy is hardly even a Libertarian. I doubt he even believes in limited government. Michael Badnarik is a true Libertarian. Barr supports the "war" on drugs, disapproves of gay marriage, is against abortion, and wants to ban Wicca in the military. The only ways he even differs from Republicans are his current (he originally voted for them) oppositions of the Patriot Act and the Iraq "War," which are bandwagon issues almost everyone is against now. The guy is just a typical gun-toting, modern Republican who happens to think that government spying on people isn't a good thing.
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Heat
6th Man
Posts: 821
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Post by Heat on Oct 19, 2008 17:40:04 GMT -5
The more improtant issues for me are: Killing babies(abortion) Gay marriage
as long as the candidate is against those, I most likely would vote for him. Although in this point in time economy and iraq war are usually the main subjects in debates/media etc....
I won't be voting for either of them, although if you had a gun to my head, I would say McCain.
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Post by oldSuns on Oct 19, 2008 19:46:05 GMT -5
You can chose to believe that Barr is masquerading as a Libertarian based on his voting record from 6+ years ago. I on the other hand believe that he abandoned the republican party for a reason, and that he chose the Libertarian Party and will place my faith in the fact that he did that because his viewpoints changed. I read the article on Wikipedia closely, the part where it talks about Barr no longer supporting the war on drugs, Despite this historic antagonism, in March 2007, Barr reversed his stance on medical marijuana[83] and began lobbying on behalf of MPP.[84][85] This new partnership saw Barr working to repeal his very own "Barr Amendment"[82] — the amendment[83] that overturned a voter-approved medical marijuana initiative in Washington, D.C.[84] and prohibits consideration of similar initiatives.[48] Barr has been careful to note that he isn't pro-drug, but rather against government intrusion.[83] In interviews he has expressed the nuanced position of simultaneously opposing legalization, yet advocating the federalist ideals of State legislation and enforcement over Federal control.[86][87]
no longer is against gay marriage, At the 2008 Libertarian National Convention, he apologized for the part of the Defense of Marriage Act which prevents the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages.[51] He now opposes the Federal Marriage Amendment, contending it is a violation of states' rights.[52]
may still be morally opposed to abortion but believes its not the federal governments place to make that decision for the people (I had to listen to many interviews to find that piece of info).
You can't have done any real searching if you doubt he's really against drastically shrinking government. Thats the basis of the whole campaign. He talks about wanting to disband Dept of Homeland Security, Dept of Education, Disband the IRS, and make many other drastic cuts in government in every interview where he gets more than 30 seconds of air time.
And there lies the problem. You skimmed a wikipedia article and made your judgement. And Barr can't afford the costs of media exposure (al la Obama and his 30 minutes of prime time tv, even MLB is moving their game time). And I'm no better. I went to Nader's homepage and looked up information there, but haven't spent anywhere close to the hours I spent looking at Barr/Libertarian info. It gets to be so difficult researching all the other candidates and most people would rather just keep the blinders on and do the same thing they've always done, vote D or R (or against D or R). Its really too bad that none of these other candidates can get into the debates.
Yeah, you can tell Barr leans a touch conservative but I've still been impressed by all ratio, tv and print media I've seen with Barr. Bob may or may not be the best Libertarian candidate but he was nominated after six rounds of voting. He understands the purpose of this election is to gain some exposure and build for the future where a switch from the two party system is hopefully inevitable. Regardless, I'm definitely not voting for Obama or McCain and every vote that goes elsewhere, any of the other political parties, is a step in the right direction.
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